"It is a game of scoundrels played by gentlemen"
Vikram Sood served the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) for over three decades and retired as its chief. His initiative to establish the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO), a hi-tech spy wing modelled on the US National Security Agency (NSA), is considered one of the biggest intelligence shake-ups since 1968, when RAW was formed. When IC-814 was hijacked on December 24, 1999, Sood was deputy chief of RAW. Excerpts from an interview:
You were running a network of stations to foil Pakistan's anti-India schemes in Nepal. What do you think was RAW's biggest success there?
Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence had been using Nepal as a base for anti-India operations since 1980. Even today, we need to be vigilant on the Nepal front. Given the needs of the hour, the country cannot afford to have anything but the best intelligence system. It is not just the duty of IB or RAW, state units and district and the sub-division units have to perform if we have to strengthen our national security.
Was the IC-814 hijacking a turning point in RAW's response towards Nepal?
Yes, that was a defining moment. Pakistan Airlines used to carry arms to Nepal and from there the ISI sent it to India through different ways. I was in the office when news came that IC-814 was hijacked from Kathmandu, perhaps by Sikh militants. But we knew that an operation of that magnitude could not be done without direct support from the ISI.
Instead of releasing three top terrorists, could you have taken other steps to neutralise the hijackers?
There was hysteria in Delhi. The media and relatives created a situation where emotions ran high. The Centre wanted to know what happened. We were using our channels to identify the hijackers. All hijackers had used Indian passports. Public pressure forced the government to negotiate with hijackers. My then deputy, C.D. Sahay, Vivek Katju from MEA and then IB chief Ajit Doval went to Afghanistan to negotiate. I and Dulat [A.S. Dulat, former RAW chief] stayed in Delhi. We were the backroom boys. The hijackers were demanding the release of 36 militants. Finally, it came down to three. Farooq Abdullah [National Conference leader] was very upset about releasing a dreaded terrorist like Mushtaq 'Latram' Zargar.
How did you increase the IB's operational level in Nepal after the hijacking?
We enhanced operations, trained Nepali intelligence officers, gave them sophisticated communication systems and shared intelligence with them.
RAW also established a base in Uttar Pradesh to monitor anti-India activities in Nepal.
It may be the monitoring station used to keep surveillance on telephones. If you know the phone number, you know the person. You can keep a tap and follow him. Sometimes you do a general search and sometimes you go through mountains of information to get a lead.
Some senior IB officers said they did RAW's work in Nepal?
We did our work in Nepal. We tightened our own arrangement with the Nepali government.
On ground how much freedom does a RAW officer have? Who recruits local agents and pays sources?
I do not want to answer this question. Intelligence agencies must have a mystique. That does not mean that there are no safeguards. There are checks and balances. The cabinet secretary makes financial decisions. Secretary (RAW) is a powerful person. Intelligence gathering is a game of scoundrels played by gentlemen. Yes, there is unaudited money to develop and nourish sources. But then you have to trust a man you have put in a foreign land. If you do not trust the integrity of that man on money matters, how can you trust him on intelligence?
Many people outside RAW consider it weaker than the ISI.
RAW is a fine intelligence organisation. The ISI is different, it is like a state. I do not want RAW to be the ISI. Then we would become monsters, and RAW hated.
INTERVIEW: Bhim Bahadur Rawal, Nepal's home minister
"We'll not allow use of Nepal's territory against India"
Nepal's Home Minister Bhim Bahadur Rawal was scheduled to visit New Delhi in mid-November, but he cancelled his three-day visit citing Nepal's "internal conditions". But many speculate that the cancellation was intended to escape pressure to sign the updated extradition treaty that India has been pursuing for nearly four years. In a telephonic interview, Rawal said Nepal was committed to the treaty which would give India the right to demand extradition of third country (read Pakistani) nationals. Excerpts:
Indian intelligence agencies believe that Nepal is still being used as a base for anti-India activities. Your opinion.
I do not agree. We will not allow the use of our soil against India. We want the best relationship with India and we are working together to further cooperation along the Indo-Nepal border to combat circulation of fake currency, terrorism and human trafficking.
Pakistan backed terrorist groups used Nepal as their base for anti-India activities. How is the situation now?
Things have improved a lot. There may be criminal activities going around. But as far as terrorism is considered, we have almost curbed it. We have strengthened our internal security.
Many terrorists were arrested in Nepal and transferred to India. What was the arrangement with India?
I am not aware of any such operation.
For the past four years, Nepal and India have been preparing to revise the 50-year-old extradition treaty. Why the delay?
We are all for the treaty. But there are technical issues. There is a dialogue at the highest level to resolve differences. I am sure we will be able to sign the treaty soon.
The recent home secretary-level talks between India and Nepal talked of fighting terrorism jointly. What steps are being taken to prevent terrorist activities in Nepal?
The most important thing is that the people of Nepal want peace and prosperity. To achieve this, maintaining law and order is vital. I assure you that there is a system in place to deal with terrorism and internal security challenges.
(THE WEEK, 7 Dec 2009)
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